Wednesday, February 10

The Rush Of Fans - Update And Clarification

Hello Airplayers,

We had such a great response in the comments section on our recent blog post titled 'Seeing A Rush Of Fans?' that we decided it deserved a whole new post as an update for clarification. So after reviewing all the comments we want to address everything here as simply and as straightforward as here goes.

- If your fan count went down, it was only because we used to count 'Guest Listeners' as Fans. We decided going forward that since there was no way to communicate with 'Guests' we would no longer include them in the count.

- Most bands actually see an increase in fans. The reason for this is we looked back over the last year and found all of the listeners who had been adding your Band into their stations and playlists. These people have been updated to be your fans. This is what created the rush of new fans earlier this week.

- Since the above mentioned 'historical' fans did not make these positive ratings just recently they are not likely to be making comments on your profile pages but you can now e.mail them and leave them bulletins.

- Going forward we will continue to create these 'Fan Relationships' when listeners add your band or songs to a station, so you should see an increase in overall fan count per play in the future.

- The Band's message center is our next area to improve so that Bands can e-mail all Fans at once. We are working on that as we speak. In addition, we are fixing the Listeners message center so that a visual alert lights up when they have a new message.

- This change in 'Fan Relationships' has no effect on PopScore. Any apparent correlation was because Tuesday is the most volatile day for PopScore. More on PopScore fluctuation HERE

Thanks, The Jango Juggler


Gari said...

Thanks for coming back to us. That explains why nobody's leaving comments. I'll be checking back here to see what our brethren have to add to the discussion.

Starways for Gari Geiselman

Anonymous said...

Jango Juggler

How does a listener add your band to either their playlist or station (and hence become your fan)??

I suspect, by the new system, that a listener becomes a fan by simply not banning your song after/while they heard it. (I do not know this of course; I am only asking).

If this is correct, than all these new fans are merely listeners who did not ban your song from their station? (meaning they made no response to your song).

Am I correct??????????

Space City Spaceman said...

Jango, thanks for the additional information about the new system. I've been on Jango for a very short time so far, so the historical differences in how fans are counted didn't impact me as much as artists who've been on a long time. In any case, the overall volume of new fans this week has been great. Also, great to hear about the coming upgrade to the message center including the visual alert and ability to email all fans at once. That should really give us all a boost in our ability to interface with fans. Keep up the great work.

Anonymous said...

Could there be slight further clarification if it's not too much trouble?

> How does the new fan become a fan? How do we know they are fans?
> Out of the 100 new fans received today, they all have emails, yet only one "shared" theirs. Will the new system allow bulk contact with those who don't share?
> If a song plays in a forest, and no one is around, can they still be a fan?

Anonymous said...

GREAT! Thank you all and may God continue to BLESS you. The Jackson Brothers.

IMA Z said...

OK...SOUNDING BETTER. So just to be clear there are 3 possible ways for someone to be designated as a FAN? 1) Click I AM A FAN 2) Add your song to there station 3) Add Band to their station. Is that it?

ONE LAST NAGGING QUESTION? How can you receive a number of FANS but Few if ANY SONG LIKES? MAkes it hard to target PAid Plays to the SOngs that are getting the Positive Response. There needs to be a LINK between NEW FAN and SONG they were listening to that resulted in the action. so WE can TARGET PAID PLAYS to the MOST POPULAR SONGS. Can you guys figure out a way to LINK A NEW FAN to SONG THAT MOTIVATED THEM? THAT IS the VALUABLE MARKETING INFO WE as musicians NEED!! If you can ...THANK YOU !!

Rick Rice of IMA Z

IMA Z said...

TESTING THE SYSTEM ...Still a bit cynical about the new way "Fans" are designated so ... I Thought of a way to TEST THe SYSTEM!! Listen up Musicians. I REMOVED ALL PAID PLAYS TO SEE IF I STILL SEE NEW FANS COMING IN!! If THE NUMBER OF NEW FANS EXCEEDS THE NUMBER OF PLAYS THEN... SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT!! I will report back. To be clear I have loved JAngo and received close to a 100 comments from TRUE FANS. I just want to continue building a solid base of TRUE FANS, not CONTRIVED FANS. If fans are coming in when there is nothing playing, I would question the reality of them having ongoing interest in the music.

Rick Rice of IMA Z

Gig Pigs said...

jango, you said that only the guests were removed, but I had 22 guest and you removed 69 fans from my count. I had 287 email fans and now I have 240.
Do you understand? Please explain why taking 22 guest off of my count could subtract 69 fans.
That is, 22 guests and 47 email fans.
Also, after the surge of 25 new fans on 2-9-10, none of these 25 showed up in my count. I am still left with the 240, 47 email fans short of where I was the day before the surge.

Anonymous said...

this is not true ..(the people who add your song into the station)...
if you HIT MAKE'em you become a FAN... i just did this as a listener ..
you dont have to do anything else

Anonymous said...

Rick - don't forget organic plays through email sharing, links etc. And don't forget general rotation. Your song will still be getting a few plays if it made general rotation at least.

Kev- said...

Frankly, I'm a little dazed. I'm new as of last night.

I got a few spins out ... about 600 ... I'm still trying to figure out how things work here ... and thought the feed would be more paced over the month.

Anyways, I got 130+ new fans in the few hours I was on ... lots of likes and a few comments.

Overwhelming response, but I've no clue what it means. I mean, I should be impressed, but as with most things, I prefer quality over quantity.

Time will tell, I guess. I am still a bit taken aback.


Kev- said...

btw ... to the poster who wondered what would happen if they turned their paid spins off ... I did too.

So at 4pm, a little freaked at the explosion in my inbox, I turned off the paid plays.

At 4:42pm my last fan added themselves. Nothing in since ... just passing the info along.


NOVA said...

Am I the only one that DOESN'T get these CRAZY AMAZING numbers people be talking about....

like Kev said he had 600 spins...and like 120+ new fans IN A DAY....WTF!?!

I ain't NEVER had it that good. Maybe my shit just sucks.....whatev.

Either way....i'd just like to have a little more clarity as to what classify's a fan and why have a "like" button at all if they automatically become fans by pressing it. Just sayin'


Michael Tanenbaum said...

Big Thumbs Up Jango for planning to fix " the Listeners message center so that a visual alert lights up when they have a new message." I'm a new artist on Jango - barely 4 weeks old and your news is music to my ears!

Alerting listeners of their inbox status would make a huge difference with my emails sent to fans that remain unopened/unread. Of the 136 emails I've sent to fans from within the Jango Mail system, only 17 fans have opened the letter in the past 4 weeks. That's a little over 12% of fans who take the time to open their mail. We are not spammers here or evangelic telemarketers who expect to be ignored in a massive way.

I'd be happy if 50% of these listeners would open their mail, otherwise despite the pleasant ego boost of accumulating fans, not being able to communicate with them effectively diminishes the power of this fantastic Jango technology and makes the fan buzz a far more fleeting experience. Ok, I'll settle for 30% of my fans opening the mail I occasionally send them. They don't even have to read it. I'd just feel better if they opened it, knowing it was received.

I even sent out a bulletin to alert fans that there was a letter in their inbox, but that did nothing to improve the read rate. My letter and bulletin has ended up in a nice fat ever growing cyber black hole.

The new feature you recently added as a tab for "Email Addresses" is wonderful but for me, it is a small list of 11 entries compared to the actual embedded fan list of 188 strong in my Jango fan list page from which I send emails.

Artists could unleash more Jango power if their fans became aware of their inbox status and were willing to read their Jango mail. Hopefully, the changes you are planning to implement will go a long way to improving the effectiveness of our fan outreach.

Now that you have streamlined the formula for accumulating new fans, this problem becomes even more pronounced when more emails are likely going to fly between artist and fans as our fan base grows. With a little time and grace, the e-Black Hole will diminish in size.

Thanks for listening!

Anonymous said...

dear jango i never left a comment on here i just read them but i feel like i can greatly give a contribution to the topic why fans dont read email and thank you for listin to my station automatic reply i am a artist on here and i have a listner account i had have great success on jango and i love it but there is one feature that jango does not have and jango need this that other social networking sites have that jango does not have and other social sites on your home page when you first log on there is a feature that is called alerts and under alerts it lets the user know that they have new messages friend request and in this case for jango it would be new friends messages comments and station likes it is inside a box and it gets the user attentiion every time he logs on so for like my space on your home page the first thing you would look for is the alerts and there is a different alert icon for what you have new message alert new friend request alert jango i know you had a my space so you know what i am talking about i had a listner page on here and i did not know i had new messages and friend request on here for months until i read comments on here i checked my box after i read people complaining and i know for a fact most user would read if they new that had alerts but when i log on to my my space i am Instantly aware of my new messages because of the alerts if jango had this system then the experience would be different and more fan label interaction think about this jango it will work

Anonymous said...

Listen guys. The true measure of a fan base is delineated by number of actual songs or CD's sold, actual, proactive fan comments and emails, and actual growth rate of fan base as you phase out paid plays and watch for organic plays and other plays through Frostwire, Limewire, and similar applications. Jango is a fantastic place to start your move into the professional performance arts; but, at some point, you have to cross over (I think they call it going viral) into the mainstream media services online and into airplay services in the conventional radio media. Most of us independent artists are thrilled to have a forum by which people can hear our work and provide a form of feedback for us. Just having one fan like us is enough when it is all about the art and not the artist.

Anonymous said...

I am so excited to be able to e-mail all my fans at once. It takes a long time to e-mail, and that has been my only complaint. I would like to see that the mass e-mails have a limit because I am one that gets very annoyed when a band-or anyone for that matter-spams. We all need to keep Jango a positive site for listeners and not turn it into a myspace.

Late For Breakfast said...

I think the only meaningful measurement of value here is whether we can convert fans into buying customers - downloading tracks or buying cd's.
Now with these changes it seems that listeners will easily become fans of a great many artists. When all us artists start emailing them regularly, guess what is going to happen? I'll bet that emailing will become pretty useless as a means of building relationships with this audience as their mailboxes fill up...

IMA Z said...

One final plea for clarity...Can you somehow make a connection Between New Fan / Song Likes

I just can't make sense out of say 20 NEW FAns but Only 1 Song Liek in the same day. Againg isn't it logical if they become a FAN that they LIKE the SONG they were listening too.

I BEG you to try to make some connection Betwen NEW FAN and THE SONG Like. I see a number of new fans for ALL SONGS I would like to see WHICH SONG they were actually a FAN of.

Does that make sense to anyone or I am crazy??

By the way the fan influx did stop when I removed all Plays with the exception of a dozen or so free plays.

I know you are trying to do the right thing JANGO, please keep working to make the information meaningful so that when an Artist wants to take the next step to SELL THEIR MUSIC they have a legitimate FAN BAse to start marketing too, that is genuinely interested. THANKS!!

Rick Rice of IMA Z

Rick Rice of IMA Z

Kev- said...

I ended my sixteen hour run of 600 spins w/ 138 new "fans" (whatever THAT means) :), 19 likes and 8 new comments.

I don't want to market ... because marketing makes my skin itch. I've sold music (albeit slowly ... probably largely due to my marketing allergic reaction) for years ... and figure there's nothing I can say to convince anyone to purchase. Folks make those decisions on their own.

I did thank the folks who commented.

I've no clue who posted a "like" ... it may be buried in the data somewhere ... but I'd like to thank them too.

... if I ever get around to looking for it ...


Gig Pigs said...

Well, this whole thing has taken the wind out of my sails. The loss of 47 email fans is a hard hit. It took a little money and a whole lot of work to collect those 47. I know some of the artist have many many fans and a loss of 22% might not effect them that much, but for me, it's a killer.
I think I'll just lay back on the jango thang and start moving into other venues. There are more.
If things stabalize, I may come back as a paying customer, I don't know.

Gig Pigs said...

OK, an update. Within the last couple of hours, my fan count went from 243 to 312. I guess whatever caused the 22% of my fan loss was corrected.
Thanks jango.

Marilyn Carino said...

@Michael Tanenbaum re: emails to fans and how/whether they are alerted to such: I agree 100% that it is problematic for artists to maximize the effectiveness of the email feature if a) fans aren't aware they have messages from us and b) if we don't know the correlation between the userid/handle of the fan and their email.

I try to keep up with emailing new fans promptly every day (but since the latest fan designation switch my new fan count has tripled to a nearly unmanageable 100-150 per day, woo!) and in that email I ask them for their email address, which I then, in gratitude, offer them a link to a free download of an unreleased track. Since the Jango email list just provides the actual email addresses, I can't tell if I have already contacted that listener. I can pinpoint the ones who give me the address in a Jango message, though, and I have found that preferable for demographic and tracking purposes.

Two more cents: while its great to have the capability to email fans all at once, I am concerned that Jango WILL become spammified and listeners won't be so forthcoming with contact info or be as inclined to check messages a la Myspace. Blanket contacts are what bulletins are for. Email messages should be personalized and as spambot proof as possible. My vote is that we NOT be able to blanket email all fans, keep that function for bulletins and KEEP JANGO COOL!

JUst a suggestion to help us artists out a bit more and keep Jango user-friendly, thanks Jango - Marilyn Carino

Kev said...

Good point, Marilyn.

Marilyn Carino said...

Cheers, Kev.

reza akhavan (dj nec) said...

the surge isn't working?

t-bird magera said...

247 plays
37 fans
1 comment

first day on. now what lol:)
ya know what, either way, it made me smile and will give me enough confidence to write some songs until of course i lose my confidence.

Gig Pigs said...

Now this is just Crazy!
Yesterday a song pops up and the Make'em or Break'em window shows up. I hit "Break'em". I go to thier profile and guess what. I'm a Fan. I wait for another band to show up with the window and I hit "Break'em". I go to "thier" profile and I'm a Fan.
No offence to the bands, just an experiment.
Now the bands are going to think I love the song, send me an email saying "Thanks for becoming a Fan"
I, as a listener, am going to think, WHAT?
Come on jango. Who's the new guy that came up with this nonsence?
How many of our FANS acually think we suck compared to the Fans that like us?

This is crazy!

Anonymous said...


Something is definately wrong. As a listener, I have the Aerosmith station on. An independent hip/hop band came on and I selected the "break it" button. I then went to their fan site and I am a fan!!

Gig Pigs said...

This might explain the "Surge".

IMA Z - Rick Rice said...

FANS YOU SAY??? - I SAY SHAMS!!! Flush JANGO FAN COUNTS down the toilet as a valisd marketing tool. To validate GIG PIGS experience above, I also just went to an Artist Site, out of curiosity, actually someone on this blog, did nothing other than type in the user Jango Address, didn't slect Like or Love, didn't click I am a fan..BUT GUESS WHAT? YEAH RIGHT...According to JANGO CRITERIA I am a FAN!!

THis needs to be readdressed. I have no faith that anyone who is now logged in as a NEW FAN has any inkling they are a FAN and offer no Value other than a Quick EGO boost (see T-Bird Magera above) and a false sense of success,

I will reiterate. I chose JANGO over Garage BAnd and others because it gave me REAL FEEDBACK from REAL PEOPLE and although the numbers were small, they were from folks who actually liked the music, commented to that effect and corresponded to a degree by answering emails saying they like the music and will listen to new music as it rolls out!!. It was something to build on or at least to be GENUINELY PROUD of.

PLEASE JANGO, I don't know about anyone else but I WANT ONLY FANS who have taken an ACTION to say to ME, I LIKE WHAT I AM HEARING IMA Z, I AM A FAN.

GIG PIGS Email above should be a WAKE UP Call to all Artists mesmerized by this NEW FAN SHAM. For a brief moment, based on JANGO's explanation above, I thought maybe there is some value. Now based on the GIG PIG Experiment Above and my own experience yesterday, I am back to my original belief that this is simply an attempt by JANGO TO MANIPULATE THE NUMBERS FOR THEIR OWN PROFIT TO GET UNSUSPECTING ARTISTS TO BUY MORE PLAYS AND IS IN NO WAY Motivated by a desire to HELP ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES.

WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT!! And just what was that SUPPOSED FEEDBACK from ARTISTS that inspired you to do this? I would like to see some examples. At this point I am not just disappointed I am DISGUSTED. Give us some real FAN info to work with PLEASE!! You owe ALL ARTISTS who SPEND THEIR HARD EARNED $$$ on JANGO An APology and some changes!!

Rick Rice AKA Eric MAynard of IMA Z

IMA Z - RICK RICE said...

OH and since you changed the rules I would like a refund of the money I have spent on unplayed PAID PLAYS. I would not have purchased 10000 plays for future use based on this NEW B.S. way of designating fans. IT IS MEANINGLESS GARBAGE. If you insist on doing business this way I believe anyone who invested in PLAYS BEFORE the CHANGE should be entitled to a REFUND for the $$$ VALUE of any remaining UN ALLOCATED PAID PLAYS!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!




Anonymous said...

I think the easiest solution is for a listener to become a fan, they have to select, "BECOME A FAN". This should be the only option. If they go their our website, they are not a fan; if they like a song, they are not a fan - yet. Perhaps, Jango needs to make the "BECOME A FAN" option larger or pop up in the middle of the screen.

Our band has been a Jango member for 1 week, we have about 500 fans, but now I wonder ......

Gig Pigs said...

OK, another experiment.
An indie artist pops up on my player. I hit the orange frown face that says "Never Play This Song Again". I then go to the artist profile and
guess what? "I'm A Fan"
Once again, no offence to the artist, just an experiment.

What I did as a listener was to say that I "hate" this song and unknowingly became a Fan. (well I knew it because of the experiment)

I was thinking that this could be a "bug", but who introduces a new policy and software without ever testing it out. If this is a bug, it's a giant one and should have been caught right away.

jango, I think we need a new "Update and Clarification"

Space City Spaceman said...

Come on Jango, clicking "Make'Em" and becoming a fan, was already a bit of a stretch to the true meaning of "fan," but at least there was some justification in that a person had to like the song enough to vote positively for it. But to become a fan for clicking "Break'Em" is truly ridiculous. Artists do not want people who voted "Break'Em" listed as Fans on their profile. And it makes communicating with anyone on your fan list very difficult because under this system you now have no way of knowing if they like your music or not. I and others had asked for an explanation about the difference between the total fans per day vs. the "likes" per day. Before the change, "likes" would always be equal to or greater than the number of new fans. Since earlier this week, total new fans is greater than "likes" and based on the fact that clicking "Break'Em" is being counted as a Fan, then at the very least the difference between total Fans per day and total "likes" is the number of people who voted "Break'Em" or became a fan some other way (visiting your page, etc.). How will the average Jango listener react when they learn that their "Break'EM" vote lists them as a fan on someone's page? After all, "Break'Em" = Ban this song from my Station! It is the exact polar opposite of "FAN." Jango, please get your act together and stop this nonsense as soon as possible. The way Jango operated before this change was decent and I because there are a lot of good features already in place and more on the way, I am willing to stick around but I hope you can give all of us an explanation about how you plan to handle this quickly.

Anonymous said...

I tried a similiar test. I also selected the frown face on the independent's song (I actually did not like it) and then also selected thumbs down. I then logged off and then as an anonymous listener with no Jango account I looked the band up and behold, I was a fan. Prior, I had wondered if I was a fan by simply going to their Jango website, regardless of my thumbs down selection.

Evidently, this proved that selecting a frown and/or a thumb's down rating still results in a fan.

Also, I had stated earlier that in order to be a real fan, they have to actually select, "BECOME A FAN". However, I will also agree that if the listener adds the band or some of their songs to their own radio station, then they should also be classified as a fan.

Space City Spaceman said...

I also agree with counting people who add music to their station as fans, even if that is the only criteria. And any other thing that counts as a "positive" action as it relates to an artist's music.

I hope you can get the Break'em/Ban'Em thing worked out so we can get back to the real business of building a true fan base and good relationships with people who like and/or love our music.

Jamie Garratt said...

What is the new criteria that these new fans have to meet. It was great to have such an influx of fans to the point I questioned if jango had a problem. So I checked out my radio station on jango. My music played, I didn't click anything but a few moments later I had an email saying I had just become my own fan. As other people have put, aren't people being duped into becoming fans without actually deciding for themselves if they like the music.

Jango Airplay said...

Hey Gig Pigs

Jango here.

Thanks for the heads up about the possible bugs in the system, we're going to run some tests now and see if that is actually the case. If it is it will be fixed immediately as that would not be our intention at all.

This is what this blog is for, keeping a real conversation going on all things airplay. We want to know what works best for you and we always get great feedback. Always appreciated

- The Jango Juggler

Matt said...

Hey, has anyone else had their profile deleted? I just got an email from Erin at airplay support, saying my entire profile is deleted based on "my request." I cannot log in to airplay anymore. Is this just a one-off mistake, or is anyone else experiencing this????

Gig Pigs said...

jango, I thought it might be a bug. As well as fixing it, I'd like to know what your plans are for rectifiing the problem.
Since Feb 9th, the day of the surge, many new fans have been posted to artists. Some, most, or all who have hit the "Don't Like" button.
Since the "Make'em or Break'em" window is a temporary window, how will you go back and delete these "fans"? How will you know, since every click resulted in a "Like" There have been tens of thousands.
If you find that our tests are valid, how will you make it right.
Please let us know.

Jango Airplay said...

Matt @ 1.43

what is your band name ? We'll have Erin check out what happened and e.mail you


Matt said...

OK, nevermind my comment above, this got resolved. Thanks Erin!

Space City Spaceman said...

Jango--Thanks for the timely response and update on the situation. One of the things I appreciate is that you do respond to any concerns brought up by artists, whether it's here via the blogs or via email, so thank you! The new fan volume seems to have "normalized" so perhaps the bug is fixed now?

IMA Z - Rick Rice aka Eric Maynard said...

Spoke too soon and too harshly !! MUST ADMIT THAT JANGO HAS ALWAYS ADDRESSED MY CONCERNS AND CONTINUES TO DO SO!! I OWE THE JANGO TEAM AN APOLOGY!! Here is a personalized response I received from SEAN the BLOG MASTER: (my response to follow, please read)

Hi Rick,
You are absolutely correct. And we are looking into the glitch people are writing about. We don't want someone who clicks 'break em' to be your fan any more than you do. So on that note if there is indeed a glitch it will be fixed immediately. Our whole point is that yes, only positive actions make you a fan.
Our other big initiative that seemed to get overlooked here is that no longer can 'guests', which is people who are not registered users, become your fan. So this actually makes the 'quality' of your fans go up as you can not email 'guests'. I'm not sure what % that was but it's now only 'registered users' that can be fans, so higher quality in the fans table.
I can only assure you that there's no monkey business's our goal to make this as positive a promotional experience for bands as we can, that is what will keep us around.
Again, say the word and we can refund your money...we only want real fans too...YOU !
But if you want to stay on board that's great and know that the lines of communication are wide open

All the best,

Sean Holland - JANGO


Once again the responsive and personalized service I experience with Jango has left me no choice but to continue with Jango.

I would also like to give you permission to remove my inflammatory posts from the blog. I went overboard and owe the Jango team a heartfelt apology. I can be a hot head at times.

Thanks again for your unparalelled personalized service...You have thousands of Artists, I am small potatoes in the grand thee of things, yet you took the time to send a personalized response.

You have restored my confidence in JANGO and I will ADMIT I WAS WRONG to question your motives in anger!!

ThankY ou Again Rick The HotHead) Rice of IMA Z

IMA Z Rick said...

Sean one last request!! Could you please let "us" know when the fix has been made. I do not want to apply any PAID PLAYS until I know the NEW FANS coming in are legit and have taken a proactive action to be desigantaed NEW FAN.

Hope it's fixed soon. I am ready to get "Back On The Air"

THanks IMA Z Rick

Gig Pigs said...

Hey Rick. What a great post. You the Man!

When I first saw the surge in Fans, I knew something wasn't right. I actually lost 69 fans that day. 22 guest and 47 "valid" fans. Never got any of them back. I gained about 25 that day, but they never showed up in my Fan count and were never added to my email Fans list.
This led me to the "I've got to get to the bottom of this" attitude.
Didn't mean to start a riot. (ha)

It seems like there's some damage control to be done by jango. That will be a test, because from where I sit, it looks like quite a bit of damage from Feb 9th untill now.
Let's see what happens. I'm sure it will get worked out.

Eat The Weeds said...

Hello Jango and fellow artists

I am looking forward to being able to email all fans at once...

..and I was wondering is there are any data on how many listeners actively use the Jango email function/read their emails.

Also fellow artists out there what type of communication through Jango have you had most response to? Email, buletins, other??

Thanks everyone!

Anonymous said...

Although our band is a relatively new Jango member (1 week today), it seems that Jango is sincere in trying to make this a great site. I am impressed that they responded quickly to IMAZ Rick and offered to refund his money if he is not satisified. That alone, put my mind at ease that this is a quality music site that wants to provide a solid and reliable venue for our songs to be heard on the internet(and no, I am not a Jango employee, nor do I know anyone at Jango)

Anonymous said...

Hi jango, Please explain, whats going wrong with your email server, does it need looking at?

I joined like most of us and added my music to the profile as a fan. I have sent 2 Bulletins, in the space of 2 weeks. I recieved absolute emptyness. Nothing, not a byte. I got about 20 emails sent to fans waiting to be viewed. If i got the response from the bulletins i sent, then they is no wonder why i havent recieved a reply from any of them. They just dont know i sent them anything. It seem like jango is in beta these few months. I know its progress, but really. This is one of the main features why i buy credits to gain popularity, not much point if i cant tell them anything.

Space City Spaceman said...

Rick--Agree with Gig Pigs, great post. I think we have our 'hothead' moments. Also, hope it wasn’t my profile you referred to about testing your “Break’em” votes on…:-)

Gig Pigs—To back up your story about losing real fans in addition to the expected loss of unregistered guests, I also lost about 40-50 registered fans the day the switch occurred (along with 51 unregistered). It would be nice to see more inquiry from Jango into what happened and not just the standard “if your fan count went down, it was only because we used to count ‘Guest Listeners’ as fans.”

Eat the Weeds- My experience with trying to communicate with fans so far (I’m also new to Jango) is that it is very difficult right now. I haven’t gone back and counted, but I would say no more than 20% ever open an email. I’m not always looking for a response, but a few do reply back. I think many people do not realize they can get email on their home profile, but you can also imagine that some people do see the email but don’t open it. Regarding bulletins, have no way of knowing how many people read them. One of the features I like on MySpace is that when you post a blog, it gives you statistics on how many people have viewed it. (Something else to consider Jango?) I’m interested to hear about other artists experience in this area as well.

Jango-Yes, I am an artist who can be counted as a fan of Jango and I think it is a great way to introduce new music to a large diverse audience. If real radio worked this way, I think the music industry would be a lot better off. But since it doesn't, I hope Jango is very successful in proving out the business model. I have been telling many friends of mine in the music business good things about Jango and its benefits. I even started a blog about Jango on my MySpace page (of all places) to help answer questions and document what I’ve learned from the process. Also, good job with the damage control starting today, but be aware there were some "red flags" being raised by a lot of artists since early in the week that if investigated more rigorously might have revealed the true source of the problem a lot more quickly. I also give you a lot of credit for addressing the issue so quickly once the glitch was uncovered and reiterate my respect and appreciation for all the good things you do to support new artists.

Space City Spaceman said...

Rick - Fans and "Likes" are back to normal today so it appears the "Break'em = Fan" glitch has been resolved. If you haven't already, you should be good to turn your airplay back on. Good luck to you all the other indie artists...see you on the airwaves.

Anonymous said...

Have the "fans" who hit "Break'em" and were added as "fans" been filtered out of the "fan base"?

If not, could that be done? If and when that happens, could folks not complain about losing fans? :)

Anonymous said...

I don't think that by break them, you became a fan,who ever did the experiment and then go back to check, alone, just by getting to their profile
it counted as a fan. Not because of the break them. I don't know, that's what i think because you do become a fan by going on their profile.
Unless there is a bug that caused it. I am very
happy with jango, I appreciate what they do for all the bands, very grateful for all they do. I am also looking forward to the new features. I love jango and will continue to do so. It is all about giving our music as a gift to the world after all, that's what matters to me. Good luck to all the artists and best wishes... Happy valentines day.

Anonymous said...

Hey JANGO and anyone else reading this blog. After spending 12 years in Nashville as a writer/ singer/guitarist/club musician I can tell you all right now that what Jango is doing is changing the face of music history. Now some business type behind a desk can't tell us anymore what we can or can't do. Music is going to be sold and recorded by artists the way it should be. This is making the fat cats in places like Nashville extremely angry. They are watching their monoply dissolve right before their eyes and they have a lots of power. They will try any way they can to put you "JANGO" into some sort of scandal to bring you down or put a bug in your system. You must be transparent, diligent and cautious. I have seen Nashvilles underbelly and it AINT clean. I have a lot of praise for what you are doing. You and your industry are the future. The floodgates are opening my friends. Catch the wave!

Michael Tanenbaum said...

@Marilyn Carino post re: non correlation of the userid.handle of the fan and their email address: Very articulate description she gave of non correlation issues currently plaguing fan email addresses and their subsequent usefulness without a name & a geographical location to hang anything meaningful on to it. I share her concern about e-blast misuse and I also vote for no blanket emailing of all fans beyond the current great Bulletin feature. If you're on tour, it would be useful to email fans from a specific location to let them know of your events.

On the subject of different layers of Jango not being fully correlated to fan data, I examine that in detail on the Airplay blog entitled " New Feature - Updated Play Stats Page" from Feb. 10, 2010. I posted my entry on Feb. 11 @ 4:17pm.

I too experienced wild swings in my fan count every day this week - a wild roller coaster ride every few hours. I didn't take it personally and just thought of it as noise in the channel as the new fan formula/algorithm was churning through the database and finding its true signal. It's possible too that the Jango team was responding to artist feedback about discrepancies and then tweaked the formula and system several times which only generated more randomness in the fan numbers and a cycle of software update-user feedback-Jango response & reprogramming. It can be a vicious cycle until all the bugs are out. I imagine system sanity will soon prevail and the ghost in the machine will no longer spook our fan counts to freak out. There's no sham going on here that I can sense, just growing pains when software is coded to add more "intelligence" and acts dumb or clumsy until it is fully integrated - not unlike a growing teen's body that trips over everything.

I also appreciated Space City Spaceman's reflective comments about borrowing and incorporating some of the strengths of Myspace into Jango but leaving the rest so that the Jango experience remains uncluttered.

Cheers to all and thanks for listening Jango.

Marilyn Carino said...

Thanks @Michael Tannenbaum, @Gig Pigs (hey, are you really my fan? :) ), @Spaceman - your thoughtful comments (however vitriolic, hey, we're spending big money here, I appreciate the passion..) have sparked a healthy dialogue to take place, and hopefully will assist Jango in improving what is certainly a promising (if still nascent) forum for artist/fan connection, and possibly an invaluable model for the "new" record industry.

While I do commend Jango for agreeing to address these technical issues, I have decided to stop using Jango until these issues have been resolved. I love the Jango model, but will abstain from paying for any more plays until it becomes more user-friendly in the following ways:

1.Artists can count on their fans being TRUE fans, who have, as Gig Pigs aptly noted, have taken action to SPECIFICALLY designate themselves as such

2. Jango implements a notification mechanism that enables these fans to know when they have a message, thus making it worthwhile for artists to pay to get access to these people. Otherwise what's the point - people already can stream my music for free on a hundred different webistes

3. There is more integrated demographic information - when fans supply me with their email address I also want to know their Jango handle, geographic location, and real name if they have provided it to Jango. Otherwise, I run the risk of spamming fans with duplicate emails to both their Jango page and their personal email. NOT COOL.

PS - Be smart - NO BLANKET EMAILS TO FANS, LEAVE THAT FOR BULLETINS. This is how MySpace got spammed out and lost all credibility. It will RUIN Jango.

Please take these comments and suggestions to heart Jango. We are rooting for you, but the bottom line is that its really a matter of scarcity of that big bad marketing dollar. I for one simply cannot afford to spend $200 per month on services that don't deliver. Most of us are struggling musicians, but most of us also think of ourselves as businesspeople and we know what our business requires - clear and comprehensive demographic info for marketing purposes. Give us that and you'll get plenty of our money.


Marilyn Carino

Anonymous said...

Marilyn Carino,
I too have decided to stop using Jango until this is all sorted out. I was also not happy with the automatic billing every month, so now I have to remember to cancel that debit.
I am sure things will improve, in the mean time, I will wait, and hold on to my dollars.

Chandler said...

I, too, will be suspending usage of Jango until the "bugs" are worked out. Something odd went on yesterday, where I was unable to view the reports, and then early this morning half of my PAID airplays for yesterday "disappeared" only to show up later on the reports with NO likes or fans. I can't afford to pay for marketing that can't be trusted.

IMA Z ... Rick Rice said...

Any Updates To NEW FAN Designation Issue?

I was wondering if any progress had been made on resolving the assignment of FAN Designation to listeners. The critical points from my perspective as a an Artist would be:

1) Clarification on specifically what actions taken by a listener would lead to them being designated a NEW FAN. From the blog comment I think it was pretty consistent that Artists would like only those who Select I'M A FAN, LIKE or LOVE Smiley Face, A THUMBS UP or ADD to PROACTIVELY ADD to Their Listening Preferences. Obviously the more stringent the qualification the better the quality of the fan.

2) I, like many JANGO Artists like to communicate with "FANS" by email or Bulletins. Is Jango going to be able to go back and CLEAN UP the FAN List? i.e. delete Detractors who were inadvertently added as FANS as demonstrated by several Artists on the blog?

I am sure any Artist aware of the situation with the FAN Designation revision is anxious to get a resolution to the situation and ease concerns about the quality of fans.

Hopefully it will be resolved before others who may be unaware receive negative feedback causing them to question the FAN designation process.

Thanks for your ongoing communication regarding the issue. I can't wait to get back to BUSINESS AS USUAL, that being adding PAid Plays to tracks and Contacting those listed as FANS with confidence as I have in the past!!

Best...Rick Rice of IMA Z aka Eric Maynard

Anonymous said...

we were Jango Listeners before Airplay came onboard. we loved Jango; our whole family listened together. the experience was rich, rewarding and illuminating. Jango allowed our young'uns to explore music in all its style and variety. Now that we are Jango Artists as well, our prime directive is preserving the listener's pleasant experience. Tweeking Jango Artist Code is a great thing. we are reminded of the ancient wisdom 'first do nothing'; Jango did something and now more artists are paying attention to just how Jango works . we are are better informed cuz of the coders' work.
We as well as Jango would hate to have a non-listener by “choice” be made a fan cuz of a bug in the new code. At the very same time Jango introduced the new fan “relationships”; we changed genre and our fans exploded! the total before last week took us some time of cultivation; then it more than doubled in 3 days. We did have comments all the while .. a few. Now for that next issue....;

Gari said...

We have really enjoyed the ongoing intelligent communication that has been taking place here since the woobies took over the machine a week or so ago. Over the last 2 days, things have calmed down considerably, back to more of the level of activity we enjoyed prior to 'the experiment'.

So we're wondering if that is similar to what others are now going through?

Take Care Everyone. It's rough out there, and it's nice to at least have some company while we try and figure out how to make music and money in today's music world.

Starways on behalf of Gari Geieslman

IMA Z said...

4 LIKES / 4 FANS!! - I Decided to allocate some plays today and see what would happen.


The 1:1 ratio of Likes to Fans is promising. Total Fan numbers have dropped from the "BIG RUSH" But that is probably a GOOD THING!! Indicates the MEANIES who hit BREAK "EM or SAD FACE are probably not being listed as FAns!!

The 4 fans to 60 plays is close to the 4-5% ratio of Fans to Plays I was experiencing before, a little better. (I know it still sucks, but that's on me,lol) But at least it's real numbers!!

The LOW POP SCORE would seem to indicate there are still a lot of IMA Z HATERS out there!! lol THAT'S OK as long as they are not ending up on my FAN LIST, and it looks like they are not.

Looks to me like JANGO Customer Service has come through again!! I am ready to Rock & Roll with Airplay once more!!

Thanks Team JAngo for jumping on this and making it right!!

IMA Z Rick

Anonymous said...

Well, I don't see it as making it right, although the problem has been solved. When many band have reported hundreds of new fans during the 4 day "bug" period, other bands like mine have recieved none. It seems that the bands that were not allocating credits are the ones that picked up very little phoney fans.
No offence to those who picked up hundreds during this time, but these fans have to be verified. jango has not "made it right" yet.
I was goig to wait for a statement from jango before I posted, but it seems like the issue is being swept under the carpet.
jango, please explain what your plans are for repairing the time period of Feb 9th through 12th.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jango,

I agree with earlier posts that you are not yet making things right. We have no idea what is going on because you have not communicated any of your findings about bugs or what steps you have taken to resolve them. Even though this message board has been buzzing with comments from your airplay artists, you have been very silent since your post @February 12, 2010 1:27 PM where you said:

"Thanks for the heads up about the possible bugs in the system, we're going to run some tests now and see if that is actually the case. If it is it will be fixed immediately as that would not be our intention at all."

What was the result of your tests? Do you plan to share with us your findings? Have the bug or bugs been fixed? What do you plan to do to resolve the results of the errors caused by the bugs? Your long silence and lack of responsiveness does not inspire confidence.

Oz said...

I read Marilyn's comments with some interest, as I've also stopped allowing plays, but for a somewhat different reason.

The problem is that the value of the statistics is questionable - most particularly if you are not in a mainstream genre. If you're doing rock or country or mainstream alternative, chances are you don't have these problems.

I'll describe the symptoms first, and then explain the causes.

1. Very, very popular bands appear high up in your fan overlap list, meaning (supposedly) that people who like those bands should have an increased chance of liking your music.

2. You put one of those bands on your target list.

3. Your plays go way, way up.

4. Your new fans drops -- a lot.

Now, I think Jango is honestly working to make this a great an valuable service, but the above scenario basically means you spent a lot more money and got less for it - and you spent it to Jango, based on information provided by Jango. And based on the advice and explanation of the fan overlap report, also from Jango. (And so you won't think this is a sideswipe, some time ago I reported this to Jango and explained the cause to them, too).

So why would this happen? Let's take a really, really popular band: U2

Lots of people like U2. They may like, also, country music and heavy metal, but even amongst those they may like U2. U2 is a very generally popular band. As you get more plays, statistically, a lot of the people who like your music also like U2 -- even though you may be doing death metal.

The problem is, most of the people generally who like U2 don't care for death metal - that's why death metal is a niche genre and not mainstream. But still, a lot of people who liked your death metal tune also like U2.

So... U2 ends up high on your fan overlap. And in my case, it was the very top on one song and high up on several others. So, according to Jango, that means that people who like U2 have a very good chance of liking my music. But my music (not death metal lol) is nevertheless in a niche genre itself.

(more in next messages)

Oz said...

As an experiment, I added U2. My plays went from to mid 200's a day to about double! Wow! Of course, most of these went to people listening to U2 or who like U2, because that is a LOT of the population. But they don't care for my genre, so... few fans, compared to the time before when U2 was excluded.

I also have Coldplay, Beatles and the Rolling Stones high on numerous lists, but I assure you the music will only appeal to those listeners if they also like the music in my genre which - statistically - is a tiny minority of them.

The problem is that a band's popularity within any genre needs to be compared against it's popularity with listeners of all other genres. The more GENERALLY a band is popular, the less it matters in any single genre.

In other words, the value of the correlation between your song's fans and the bands in the fan overlap list would need to be lowered to the degree any band was also popular in listeners of other genres.

If a band is musically mostly in one genre (rock/pop for U2, more or less), then having them show up in your list is great IF you are also in a similar genre. It is very bad when it rates highly in fan overlap of a different genre - it pushes down or out bands that might get you better plays and more actual fans.

So for me, I do a kind of esoteric electronic/IDM/breakcore. When I see Coldplay way up on my overlap report, or Rolling Stones, I pretty much know the typical fans of those songs are not going to mostly be in my genre. They are just generally popular and so appear ALSO as bands my fans like. But fans of the popular band will not (usually) care for my music.

This needs to be fixed. I consider this a show-stopping issue for me, but if you are in the mainstream, this won't be that much of a problem for you, although it still can result in lowering your fans-to-plays ratio.

I've halted plays, even though I have them on account, because this destroys the main reason and value of Jango for me. As I see it, there's a few ways Jango can be very valuable:

- Ego stoke. I can't deny this one - just getting fans and stuff is very cool. Not the most important of the values, but it's there.

- Marketing intelligence. This is the main reason. Jango is kind of like the old "test market" concept that record companies have used, except it is worldwide. I would like to use this information to help me know how to spend my very limited marketing budget. Where are and who are the people who like this music.

The fan overlap report is very important to this because my main form of targeting is band-similarity. I can hit up the publishers and record companies of those bands, find out where else they are getting plays on the net or radio, etc. But only if this is accurate information and, for me, it is increasingly less accurate as the plays add up.

So, getting more plays now means less value, and thus I've stopped the plays.

(... and more...)

Oz said...

(... final bit)

There was one other problem, which is more problematic to sort out. Even when on a roll with fans and plays, it has never resulted in increased sales or plays on any other site, like iTunes, Rhapsody, my own site, myspace, etc.

I also promote to college radio, and have found that plays on college radio - even a single play - always causes a spike everywhere else. Perhaps the reason is that a single play on radio reaches hundreds or thousands of listeners at once, whereas a single Jango play reaches exactly one person, and thus the impact is more spread out. But I think the real reason is the poor targeting potential of the off-genre ratings of bands, resulting in a lot of plays to unsympathetic ears.

So that's the tale. I would LOVE to see Jango sort out the statistical realities of the band correlations (Fan Overlap). I'd be back on board for sure if and when that occurs.

Cheers to all,

scientifix said...

It seems to be working great for us!! No other method of promotion has been as successful as getting our tracks out in the wild. Thanks to jango crew, maximum exposure, thats how you do.


Gari said...

Oz, thank your for your in depth analysis. Our big concern now is that we have fans that actually hate us. I hope the system sorts it out without ruining our numbers, but I notice that all of a sudden our PopScore has returned to near normal numbers. I was perplexed when it dropped to 15, but the 'your fans hate you' syndrome might explain the phenomenon.

Don't get me wrong. We are still big fans of Jango, but as you stated astutely, good data is critical to our efforts. Much love, Starways for Gari Geiselman.

Gig Pigs said...

Gari, I agree with you. But as jango creats new topics, this topic/blog is moving it's way down the artist homepage list and will soon be gone.

Today I heard a really bad song. Out of key vocals and very poor performance. I went to thier profile and saw that they had almost 800 fans.

Regarding listeners becoming fans by cliking the "Make It" button, I changed my email that I send to Fans as they come in. I've taken the word "Fan" out because all they did was say they liked a song. I put more wieght on the word fan than jango does. I mean, by cliking Make'em, they don't even know that they became a fan. It's almost like a fan trap. (ha)

Anyway, at this point let's see if jango ever comes out with an answer on the "bug" period. I'm kinda doubting it.

Space City Spaceman said...

Gig Pigs: I am with you in hoping we will get more information sometime soon. It would be interesting to know how many people actually monitor these blogs. It seems there are quite a few artists waiting for more information on "the bug period" so I hope it won't just fade away before we get some feedback on what happened and how it is being handled.

Oz-- I really enjoyed your thoughtful analysis comments on the Fan Overlap report as I've also been trying to figure out how to make the best use of targeting. My challenge is a little different in that I target multiple genres, rather than a niche genre. I think the key is to find the right major genre and then use actual artists as your sub-genre targeting. In your case, I think you are correct not to focus on the major name brand bands in the overlap when your music is so specialized. If U2 is pizza, then you might be a specialty food like anchovies. If you target for people who like pizza, a certain percentage will like anchovies, but you are best served by going as directly as you can to find the ones that have a taste for anchovies.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I applauded IMA Z Rick for cooling down after posting a good ream about the way jango was handling the new FAN policy. But now that I see jango is unwilling to comunicate on this topic, I'm thinking maybe Rick cooled down to fast. Just my opinion.

knock knock. jango, is anyone home? Just say hey, were working on it, or something.

ima z said...

Anonymous you may be right...The Silence is Deafening... Check this out...I am really trying to stay positive REALLY I AMM!!

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 10:48 AM, ER Rice wrote:

I just went to one of the ARTIST OF THE WEEK profiles and did a little test. I logged in as user, when their song came up I selected FROWN FACE - NEVER PLAY THIS SONG AGAIN (as a test, not a knock on their music)... Guess What? YOU GOT IT, Went to their Artist Profile and I SUPPOSEDLY AM NOW A FAN...I believe I was designated a FAN for simply going to their profile. It appears that simply visiting an Artist Profile is desiganting one as a FAN regardless of what other action or NON Action one takes. Wouldn't you agree is not a good thing and certainly in no way an indication one is a fan?

And after all the positive BLOG Comments I added regarding your addressing the issue this is a rather disappointing discovery.. Could you Please provide an update ASAP on what is being done,

I will not post this on the blog until you have a chance to respond to my renewed concerns here.

Anxious to allocate with confidence again...Rick

From: Sean Holland
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:56:08 -0500
To: ER Rice
Subject: Re: BAD BAD NEWS!!
- Hide quoted text -

Hi Rick,

let me look into this and get back at you.


Still Waitng!! .. IMA Z Rick

Kev- said...

Oz ... nice work on very balanced and thought out post. I've been a Jango participant for exactly one week, coming on board just as the rush of fans who hate me hit. :)

As "normalcy" returned ... meaning 500 plays nets about 30-40 new "fans" ... I also took to studying the algorithms ... wondering what it all meant.

First off, addressing the above posts w/ what I just said. If normal=500 spins resulting in say, 40 fans ... then my first 600 spins resulted in about 100 extra "fans" who really didn't want to be there ...

I'm wondering though ... perhaps it too difficult for Jango to identify who clicked what ... and after one becomes a fan, then well ... they're a fan?

Perhaps it's impossible to purge out the haters? To me, it's not a big deal ... for after so many years doing this, I assume everyone hates me, including my fans. lol ... :)

Anyways, I'm going to chew on what Oz said ... and try to figure out how to eliminate some of the bands I added, but KNOW that I'm probably not compatible with their listener base.

Space City Spaceman said...

One other aspect of the Fan Overlap report and targeting, I have noticed pretty wild fluctuations in the artists that show up on my Fan Overlap report. The fluctuations are too great based on the number of additional "likes" being factored into the data unless the snapshot is over a shorter timeframe (such as one or two days) versus the overall timeframe the song has been in play. I took a lot of time to document examples of this and sent them to Jango to ask for clarification on why this might occur and how the data is tracked and reported. I sent an to Jango on February 3 and have not received any response other than the automated ‘thank you, someone will get back to you’ email.

(More details including some of the documentation I sent to Jango are included in my personal blog on MySpace, too much detail to post here).

I'd be interested to hear if any other artists are experiencing unusual fluctuations in your Fan Overlap reports.

Anonymous said...

I've noticed that it changes sometimes, but not dramatically. Please give me a link to your myspace page regarding jango.

Space City Spaceman said...

Anon@ 3:50
Click on my artist name in this post as it is linked. Or, you can search my artist name on MySpace. Other Jango-related topics there as well, but none as of yet about the latest Fan Rush/Bugs issues. Just things I've learned from being on Jango.

Anonymous said...

today a make'em break'm window popped up
when we x'd the window,
bam! our station picked up this song and artist.
that ain't right.
also if we want to remove an artist
from bulletins can we?
we could use some confidence in airplay.
answers are a good start
a plan is better.
Listener control, and choice is critical to a
pleasing Jango experience. please see to it.

Anonymous said...

I was wondering why my station was picking up so much Rap, Country, Hip Hop. Not that I don't like some of it, I just never added it to my station.
Has anyone emailed jango? I wonder if they look at the blogs.

Anonymous said...

It would really be great if Jango could include the name of the song that the fan is hearing when he/she writes a comment. I get a lot of these "Great song!" OK, but which one was it? I have about 10 songs on Jango, with credits allocated to perhaps 3-4 of them at a time. Would be nice to know what song the commenter was referring to.

Anonymous said...

if you go to that "fans" profile and look at song history.. wah lah!


you have to have a listener account of course